Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

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Holubice
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Holubice »

ErikH ha scritto:
2 mag 2020, 20:27
Greece shot on them and blocked them off. Germany said, no one of them will get to Europe. We have 2020 now.
The weakness of Italy is actually disgusting. You want my answer?
Your coast guard has guns right? You are scared about european court? What? Ignore it. Just as evryone else does. What will they do? Dear god, become a man and stop the crying. Do as Hungary, Poland or Greece does. They say no asylum, let nobody in, shot on them, push them back violently and say to the European Court "Fuck you".
Beside that this European Court just ordered Spain to push back the africans.
You have your court ruling now, Spain simply pushs them back and its legal. Same counts for Greece, which sucessfull blocked 97% of illegals from entering its broders.
Want hear my personal opinion? My city has no migrants. When they wanted bring a bus in 2015, the people attacked it. The house was burned down.
Merkel changed her politics by 180° because AfD rising.
Stop whining and defend your nation. What you want more? Not just money but also german soldiers protecting Italy or what?
Maybe send your women. I know italian women are more tough than italian men. They propably would do a better job
Immagine

"I like Germany. I like Germany so much that I want two Germany"

(Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti, when the Berlin wall was just demolished down)

You words are scaring me... I hope you are just isolated, and all your mates have different ideas. Or we are few steps away from a new ...

Kristallnacht

Immagine
"Prima di tutto vennero a prendere gli zingari, e fui contento, perché rubacchiavano.
Poi vennero a prendere gli ebrei, e stetti zitto, perché mi stavano antipatici.
Poi vennero a prendere gli omosessuali, e fui sollevato, perché mi erano fastidiosi.
Poi vennero a prendere i comunisti, e io non dissi niente, perché non ero comunista.
Un giorno vennero a prendere me, e non c'era rimasto nessuno a protestare".
Fur Erik:
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
(Martin Niemöller)
"Ricordatevi sempre che nel nostro Parlamento siedono i nostri rappresentanti. E che ci rappresentano benissimo"
(Indro Montanelli)

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Vento
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Vento »

ErikH ha scritto:
2 mag 2020, 20:27

Greece shot on them and blocked them off. Germany said, no one of them will get to Europe. We have 2020 now.

The weakness of Italy is actually disgusting. You want my answer?

Your coast guard has guns right? You are scared about european court? What? Ignore it. Just as evryone else does. What will they do? Dear god, become a man and stop the crying. Do as Hungary, Poland or Greece does. They say no asylum, let nobody in, shot on them, push them back violently and say to the European Court "Fuck you".

Beside that this European Court just ordered Spain to push back the africans.

You have your court ruling now, Spain simply pushs them back and its legal. Same counts for Greece, which sucessfull blocked 97% of illegals from entering its broders.

Want hear my personal opinion? My city has no migrants. When they wanted bring a bus in 2015, the people attacked it. The house was burned down.

Merkel changed her politics by 180° because AfD rising.

Stop whining and defend your nation. What you want more? Not just money but also german soldiers protecting Italy or what?

Maybe send your women. I know italian women are more tough than italian men. They propably would do a better job
Youthful silliness. Quanti anni hai Erik? In questo forum si parla pacatamente di politica, che è l'arte del possibile. Tu invece parli come un tifoso di calcio. Mi fa piacere sentire una voce dalla Germania, ma dovresti cercare di approfondire un pò le cose. Se ti interessa.
Ad esempio non è vero che la Grecia respinge tutti i clandestini che Erdogan manda. Ha chiuso il confine terrestre, ma ne arrivano via mare nelle isole. La gente non ne può più, ma il governo non può fare miracoli da solo. Almeno questo vedo nei media disponibili qui.
Il problema è l'Europa, che deve decidere se vuole essere una vera Unione di Stati e difendere i confini comuni, oppure no e allora è meglio sciogliere tutto. Allora si, senza più impegni reciproci tra stati, ognuno sarà costretto a badare a se stesso.
E' vero l'Ungheria sa difendersi e l'Italia no. La ragione è che qui la sinistra è al governo ed è sostenuta da Bruxell e dalla Germania. Colpa degli italiani che votano male, certo, ma anche della Germania e della Francia, che come Stati influenti condizionano la politca italiana nel modo sbagliato.

Youthful silliness. How old are you Erik? In this forum we talk quietly about politics, which is the art of the possible. Instead, you talk like a football fan. I'm glad to hear a voice from Germany, but you should try to dig a little deeper into it. If you're interested.
For example, it is not true that Greece rejects all illegal immigrants that Erdogan sends. He closed the land border, but they arrive by sea to the islands. People can't take it anymore, but the government can't do miracles on its own. At least this I see in the media available here.
The problem is Europe, which must decide whether it wants to be a true Union of States and defend common borders, or not and then it is better to dissolve everything. Then yes, without multiple mutual commitments between states, everyone will be forced to look after themselves.
It is true that Hungary knows how to defend itself and Italy does not. The reason is that the left is in government here and is supported by Brussels and Germany. It is the fault of the Italians who vote badly, of course, but also of Germany and France, who as influential states influence Italian politics in the wrong way.

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nerorosso
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da nerorosso »

Aggiungerei che l'Ungheria non ha quasi 8.000 km di coste… Se hai solo confini terrestri da difendere viene decisamente più facile..

I would add that Hungary has not almost 8,000 km of coastline ... If you only have land borders to defend, it is much easier ..
PATRIA O MUERTE!!!

(Fidel Castro)

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ErikH
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

nerorosso ha scritto:
3 mag 2020, 1:35
Aggiungerei che l'Ungheria non ha quasi 8.000 km di coste… Se hai solo confini terrestri da difendere viene decisamente più facile..

I would add that Hungary has not almost 8,000 km of coastline ... If you only have land borders to defend, it is much easier ..
No, its easier to defend a coastline. You need just a handful man. We live in 2020. We have this

Immagine

We have radar, we have sonar and sattelites. You see evry single boat, no matter how small hours in advance.

Australia has a much bigger coast line than Italy. Yet it managed to get illegals down to zero. And its easier to cross the strait between Papua New guinea (just 140 km) and Australia than come from Libya to Italy.

Spain sucesfull defends its coast as well.

Please stop those weak excuses. It feels disgusting and reeks of weakness.

Maybe italian man should visit Australia and get teached how defend a coast line? If thats to far for you, go Saudi Arabia, when migrants from Yemen tried to reach Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia send a Apache helicopter and well...

I will be honest with you, Italy has a horrible renomee in its fighting spirit. Italians are seen as cowards in Germany, unable to fight.
I dont believe that, because i think anyone can fight. But then i read here all those excuses why Italy is to weak to protect itself against rubber boats?

Tell me you mean this as a joke?

Want see how it goes?


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ErikH
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

Holubice ha scritto:
2 mag 2020, 22:39
ErikH ha scritto:
2 mag 2020, 20:27
Greece shot on them and blocked them off. Germany said, no one of them will get to Europe. We have 2020 now.
The weakness of Italy is actually disgusting. You want my answer?
Your coast guard has guns right? You are scared about european court? What? Ignore it. Just as evryone else does. What will they do? Dear god, become a man and stop the crying. Do as Hungary, Poland or Greece does. They say no asylum, let nobody in, shot on them, push them back violently and say to the European Court "Fuck you".
Beside that this European Court just ordered Spain to push back the africans.
You have your court ruling now, Spain simply pushs them back and its legal. Same counts for Greece, which sucessfull blocked 97% of illegals from entering its broders.
Want hear my personal opinion? My city has no migrants. When they wanted bring a bus in 2015, the people attacked it. The house was burned down.
Merkel changed her politics by 180° because AfD rising.
Stop whining and defend your nation. What you want more? Not just money but also german soldiers protecting Italy or what?
Maybe send your women. I know italian women are more tough than italian men. They propably would do a better job
Immagine

"I like Germany. I like Germany so much that I want two Germany"

(Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti, when the Berlin wall was just demolished down)

You words are scaring me... I hope you are just isolated, and all your mates have different ideas. Or we are few steps away from a new ...

Kristallnacht

Immagine
"Prima di tutto vennero a prendere gli zingari, e fui contento, perché rubacchiavano.
Poi vennero a prendere gli ebrei, e stetti zitto, perché mi stavano antipatici.
Poi vennero a prendere gli omosessuali, e fui sollevato, perché mi erano fastidiosi.
Poi vennero a prendere i comunisti, e io non dissi niente, perché non ero comunista.
Un giorno vennero a prendere me, e non c'era rimasto nessuno a protestare".
Fur Erik:
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
(Martin Niemöller)
Must disappoint you. AfD is 2nd strongest party in my state.

And dont bring me the Hitler bullshit. This is about my home. I will not allow an invasion of my homeland.

In migration are pull and push factors. I´m all for push :)

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ErikH
Messaggi: 53
Iscritto il: 4 apr 2020, 10:50
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

Vento ha scritto:
3 mag 2020, 0:35
ErikH ha scritto:
2 mag 2020, 20:27

Greece shot on them and blocked them off. Germany said, no one of them will get to Europe. We have 2020 now.

The weakness of Italy is actually disgusting. You want my answer?

Your coast guard has guns right? You are scared about european court? What? Ignore it. Just as evryone else does. What will they do? Dear god, become a man and stop the crying. Do as Hungary, Poland or Greece does. They say no asylum, let nobody in, shot on them, push them back violently and say to the European Court "Fuck you".

Beside that this European Court just ordered Spain to push back the africans.

You have your court ruling now, Spain simply pushs them back and its legal. Same counts for Greece, which sucessfull blocked 97% of illegals from entering its broders.

Want hear my personal opinion? My city has no migrants. When they wanted bring a bus in 2015, the people attacked it. The house was burned down.

Merkel changed her politics by 180° because AfD rising.

Stop whining and defend your nation. What you want more? Not just money but also german soldiers protecting Italy or what?

Maybe send your women. I know italian women are more tough than italian men. They propably would do a better job
Youthful silliness. Quanti anni hai Erik? In questo forum si parla pacatamente di politica, che è l'arte del possibile. Tu invece parli come un tifoso di calcio. Mi fa piacere sentire una voce dalla Germania, ma dovresti cercare di approfondire un pò le cose. Se ti interessa.
Ad esempio non è vero che la Grecia respinge tutti i clandestini che Erdogan manda. Ha chiuso il confine terrestre, ma ne arrivano via mare nelle isole. La gente non ne può più, ma il governo non può fare miracoli da solo. Almeno questo vedo nei media disponibili qui.
Il problema è l'Europa, che deve decidere se vuole essere una vera Unione di Stati e difendere i confini comuni, oppure no e allora è meglio sciogliere tutto. Allora si, senza più impegni reciproci tra stati, ognuno sarà costretto a badare a se stesso.
E' vero l'Ungheria sa difendersi e l'Italia no. La ragione è che qui la sinistra è al governo ed è sostenuta da Bruxell e dalla Germania. Colpa degli italiani che votano male, certo, ma anche della Germania e della Francia, che come Stati influenti condizionano la politca italiana nel modo sbagliato.

Youthful silliness. How old are you Erik? In this forum we talk quietly about politics, which is the art of the possible. Instead, you talk like a football fan. I'm glad to hear a voice from Germany, but you should try to dig a little deeper into it. If you're interested.
For example, it is not true that Greece rejects all illegal immigrants that Erdogan sends. He closed the land border, but they arrive by sea to the islands. People can't take it anymore, but the government can't do miracles on its own. At least this I see in the media available here.
The problem is Europe, which must decide whether it wants to be a true Union of States and defend common borders, or not and then it is better to dissolve everything. Then yes, without multiple mutual commitments between states, everyone will be forced to look after themselves.
It is true that Hungary knows how to defend itself and Italy does not. The reason is that the left is in government here and is supported by Brussels and Germany. It is the fault of the Italians who vote badly, of course, but also of Germany and France, who as influential states influence Italian politics in the wrong way.
Politics always have a deeper sense into it. Greece is very sucesfull protecting its land border. Why? Because tehy are forced to. The rest locked down and let nobody through anymore. Where was Greece when this was not the case? It let anyone through. Same counts for Italy.

The situation on the islands is good. It must be horrible there for both, locals and migrants. The more horror, the better. You dont see how the EU under German leadership acts. It would be easy to ship all migrants off. Yet that doesnt happen. They take a few dozen for PR pics and let rest rott there. Greece cant ship them out so is forced to act.

And it works, the people on Lesbos attack migrants now, conditions get so horrible, migrants try to swim back turkey.

I wonder why you as italian dont see through this? Dont you know Macciavelli?

Merkel is no left nor right. She wants power and has no own agenda. She lost massive because the rise of teh far right so she chnged her course by 180°. The current situation in Italy and Greece is exactly because that. Nobody is let through, a few kids for pics. That conditions are like they are on those islands is wanted.

In Germany we believe that one only changes behavior through punishment. We see Italy and Greece as too soft sow e rise pressure. It worked on Greece and im sure it will also work on Italy.

Its not just Germany, France locked Italy off as well. You cant ship the africans north as you used to do. You are stuck with them. When the pressure gets high enough you will act like Greece does.

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Valerio
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Valerio »

Che palle! Andiamo avanti ancora per molto? Io no. Bye
Sovranità al Cittadino.
Non abbiamo un pianeta B

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Vento
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Vento »

ErikH ha scritto:
3 mag 2020, 11:08
Politics always have a deeper sense into it. Greece is very sucesfull protecting its land border. Why? Because tehy are forced to. The rest locked down and let nobody through anymore. Where was Greece when this was not the case? It let anyone through. Same counts for Italy.

The situation on the islands is good. It must be horrible there for both, locals and migrants. The more horror, the better. You dont see how the EU under German leadership acts. It would be easy to ship all migrants off. Yet that doesnt happen. They take a few dozen for PR pics and let rest rott there. Greece cant ship them out so is forced to act.

And it works, the people on Lesbos attack migrants now, conditions get so horrible, migrants try to swim back turkey.

I wonder why you as italian dont see through this? Dont you know Macciavelli?

Merkel is no left nor right. She wants power and has no own agenda. She lost massive because the rise of teh far right so she chnged her course by 180°. The current situation in Italy and Greece is exactly because that. Nobody is let through, a few kids for pics. That conditions are like they are on those islands is wanted.

In Germany we believe that one only changes behavior through punishment. We see Italy and Greece as too soft sow e rise pressure. It worked on Greece and im sure it will also work on Italy.

Its not just Germany, France locked Italy off as well. You cant ship the africans north as you used to do. You are stuck with them. When the pressure gets high enough you will act like Greece does.
Dopo vari post, non hai ancora risposto alla questione delle ONG tedesche, olandesi e francesi che trasportano clandestini dall'Africa all'Italia. I tre governi non hanno mai disapprovato il loro comportamento, non si sono mai dissociati, ergo le sostengono. Qual'è lo scopo? Anche questo sadico-didattico, per portare gli italiani alla follia e scatenare una rivoluzione interna?
Quindi in Grecia e Italia va tutto bene, perché va tutto male, dici. Questo suggerisce la psiche tedesca? Spero di no, che sia solo la tua psiche a vedere le cose in modo sadico.
Ma dimmi, allora cosa è l'Unione europea secondo te e a cosa serve?


After several posts, you have not yet answered the question of German, Dutch and French NGOs transporting illegal immigrants from Africa to Italy. The three governments have never disapproved their behavior, have never dissociated themselves, ergo support them. What is the purpose? Even this sadistic-didactic, to bring Italians to madness and unleash an internal revolution?
So in Greece and Italy everything is fine, because everything is wrong, you say. Does this suggest the German psyche? I hope not, it is only your psyche that sees things sadistically.
But tell me, then what is the European Union in your opinion and what is it for?

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ErikH
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

Vento ha scritto:
3 mag 2020, 12:31
ErikH ha scritto:
3 mag 2020, 11:08
Politics always have a deeper sense into it. Greece is very sucesfull protecting its land border. Why? Because tehy are forced to. The rest locked down and let nobody through anymore. Where was Greece when this was not the case? It let anyone through. Same counts for Italy.

The situation on the islands is good. It must be horrible there for both, locals and migrants. The more horror, the better. You dont see how the EU under German leadership acts. It would be easy to ship all migrants off. Yet that doesnt happen. They take a few dozen for PR pics and let rest rott there. Greece cant ship them out so is forced to act.

And it works, the people on Lesbos attack migrants now, conditions get so horrible, migrants try to swim back turkey.

I wonder why you as italian dont see through this? Dont you know Macciavelli?

Merkel is no left nor right. She wants power and has no own agenda. She lost massive because the rise of teh far right so she chnged her course by 180°. The current situation in Italy and Greece is exactly because that. Nobody is let through, a few kids for pics. That conditions are like they are on those islands is wanted.

In Germany we believe that one only changes behavior through punishment. We see Italy and Greece as too soft sow e rise pressure. It worked on Greece and im sure it will also work on Italy.

Its not just Germany, France locked Italy off as well. You cant ship the africans north as you used to do. You are stuck with them. When the pressure gets high enough you will act like Greece does.
Dopo vari post, non hai ancora risposto alla questione delle ONG tedesche, olandesi e francesi che trasportano clandestini dall'Africa all'Italia. I tre governi non hanno mai disapprovato il loro comportamento, non si sono mai dissociati, ergo le sostengono. Qual'è lo scopo? Anche questo sadico-didattico, per portare gli italiani alla follia e scatenare una rivoluzione interna?
Quindi in Grecia e Italia va tutto bene, perché va tutto male, dici. Questo suggerisce la psiche tedesca? Spero di no, che sia solo la tua psiche a vedere le cose in modo sadico.
Ma dimmi, allora cosa è l'Unione europea secondo te e a cosa serve?


After several posts, you have not yet answered the question of German, Dutch and French NGOs transporting illegal immigrants from Africa to Italy. The three governments have never disapproved their behavior, have never dissociated themselves, ergo support them. What is the purpose? Even this sadistic-didactic, to bring Italians to madness and unleash an internal revolution?
So in Greece and Italy everything is fine, because everything is wrong, you say. Does this suggest the German psyche? I hope not, it is only your psyche that sees things sadistically.
But tell me, then what is the European Union in your opinion and what is it for?
Thats the NGO, ask them its none of our business. They only do in Italy. In Greece they get beaten up and hunted out. In Greece on the islands the villagers now burn down NGO center and hunt them.

So i ask you, how high must the pressure rise till you do that as well? Since NGO left Greece and focus on Italy?

When the greeks hunted the NGO out, burned down their centers on Lesbos ect, did you hear anything from EU? Or Germany?

No. Fir years Italy send migrants north. That doesnt work anymore.

NGO beg since weeks to fly migrants from Lesbos to Germany. You know what they got? 40 kids under 14 years old. Kids for pics, as we call it and that was it.

What was EU good for, when you simply send all north? I could ask same.

What you witness now is Macciavellism at its best. You are blocked, you cant send them north.

Deal with it.

We see the cold numbers and its highly effectice. Migration through Greece is down by 97%.

Im sure Italy will reach a point where it starts protecting its borders as well.

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Vento
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Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Vento »

"Im sure Italy will reach a point where it starts protecting its borders as well."

Certainly, when it gets rid Europe.

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