Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

[Carlo]

Honestly speaking, I think that really the major of the problems are inside our country. I think it becomes the national sport to find someone external to blame for unsuccess. The first thing that my parents teach to me is to ask first to myself if I did everything right and all I can to to get the point.
And from my point of view italian politicians in the last 30 years were and are not able to see over its own nose. We had, maybe few, good politicians, but no one of them as statesman. Everybody were looking at short-range objectives (i.e. ri-election), and the situation we have now is exactly the result of such a weak politics.

Saying that, we are not so bad, and I still think that our social health is one of the best in the world. Perhaps weaker in the south of Italy, yeah. Try to get health assistance in the USA... to born a son it cost more than $20000. Italy contributes in EU science with a lot of money, but in terms of financial return is well below the minimum, and countries like UK (just to mention one) received back more than what they contributed. A lot more. This is unfair, especially whenever competition is against non-EU countries, and because the italian science, comparing the ratio between financed projects/quality of publications is high. In Germany the mean amout to do research is at least 20 times what we get inItaly. There are a lot of italian scientist all around the world that were forced to emigrate because lack of money for research. Again, I think part of the roblem are ourselve, but not all is from inside.

Finally, there are no reasons now to don't put enough money in the so-called coronabond or whatever you want to name it. We are in real emergency and the main point is that NOW EU is forced to consider where and HOW to go: stay together, which means help each other, or separate?

I'm pretty sure that big superpowers like USA, China and Russia prefer a weak Europe (whenever a single State will buy supplies is weaker than the whole Europe) rather than a strong, united Europe. For many reasons, commercial first. Until we will not overcome this we will not advance further in EU. This is the moment to make a strong decision: keep and stay together or not?

I am convinced that a strong Europe is necessary, a strong Europe able to do its owninterests and talk openly with USA, China and Russia.

[Valerio]

But Europe is not a nation, and now is too late.

Future will not be the same, world will not be the same, why should we maintain old friendships? We need a new project, not redo old mistakes.

[Carlo]

It is not late. All it depends IF there is the real wish to build a European project or not.

[Valerio]

We've been waiting for years for an old fairy tale. Our patience is over and our Italy is now destroyed.

[ErikH]

We've been waiting for years for an old fairy tale. Our patience is over and our Italy is now destroyed.

Patience in Germany too is over. For decades we demanded that southern europeans act more responsible, fight corruption and establish stable monetry politics.

That said, Austria joined Germany and said there wont be Corona Bonds.

That some Itlians call China a "friend" is ridicolous. China made this Virus with their disgusting animal markets.

China sells faulty test kits and non functional masks. Meanwhile COVID-19 still ravages China but China doesnt report about it.

China acts like a locust and a Italy that depends on China becomes a chinese colony exploited and thrown away.

When i read your posts i think you are unable to understand the other side.

Germany has zero trust in the italian political system. And i know most italians have no trust in their own political system.

Germany will help and does help alot. Much more than China does. But we will never agree to "Corona Bonds". That is against evrything Germany stands for. And as i said, its impossible since our constition bans it.

[Valerio]

We've been waiting for years for an old fairy tale. Our patience is over and our Italy is now destroyed.

Patience in Germany too is over. For decades we demanded that southern europeans act more responsible, fight corruption and establish stable monetry politics.

That said, Austria joined Germany and said there wont be Corona Bonds.

That some Itlians call China a "friend" is ridicolous. China made this Virus with their disgusting animal markets.

China sells faulty test kits and non functional masks. Meanwhile COVID-19 still ravages China but China doesnt report about it.

China acts like a locust and a Italy that depends on China becomes a chinese colony exploited and thrown away.

When i read your posts i think you are unable to understand the other side.

Germany has zero trust in the italian political system. And i know most italians have no trust in their own political system.

Germany will help and does help alot. Much more than China does. But we will never agree to "Corona Bonds". That is against evrything Germany stands for. And as i said, its impossible since our constition bans it.

I have no trust in our political system. Neither in Germany.

I don't want Corona Bonds, neither German help. I want only an Europe true nation, or an Italy free from Europe and Germany. We are not even slave.

[ErikH]

We've been waiting for years for an old fairy tale. Our patience is over and our Italy is now destroyed.

Patience in Germany too is over. For decades we demanded that southern europeans act more responsible, fight corruption and establish stable monetry politics.

That said, Austria joined Germany and said there wont be Corona Bonds.

That some Itlians call China a "friend" is ridicolous. China made this Virus with their disgusting animal markets.

China sells faulty test kits and non functional masks. Meanwhile COVID-19 still ravages China but China doesnt report about it.

China acts like a locust and a Italy that depends on China becomes a chinese colony exploited and thrown away.

When i read your posts i think you are unable to understand the other side.

Germany has zero trust in the italian political system. And i know most italians have no trust in their own political system.

Germany will help and does help alot. Much more than China does. But we will never agree to "Corona Bonds". That is against evrything Germany stands for. And as i said, its impossible since our constition bans it.

I have no trust in our political system. Neither in Germany.

I don't want Corona Bonds, neither German help. I want only an Europe true nation, or an Italy free from Europe and Germany. We are not even slave.

Italy is Europe and always will be Europe.

You are free from Germany. We dont dictate anything.

You say you dont want German help.? Maybe ask the families first whose infected family members are treated in Germany now?

[Valerio]

I speak for myself. Either one nation or goodbye.

[nerorosso]

I speak for myself. Either one nation or goodbye.

Valerio, l'Europa non potrà mai essere una Nazione unica.
Siamo troppo diversi e troppo legati ai rispettivi disegni di dominio sugli altri europei.
E mi pare che il surreale scambio con Erik stia qui a dimostrarlo.
Lui è intriso del classico senso di superiorità tedesco nei confronti di chiunque non sia tedesco. Loro sono "perfetti", nella gestione dei conti economici come delle pandemie, e registrano scrupolosamente la contabilità di quanto fatto, come stanno a dimostrare anche i registri molto scrupolosi dei trasporti ferroviari di ebrei verso Auschwitz.
Tutta ciò che fanno i Tedeschi viene portato alle estreme conseguenze, tutto deve essere "perfetto". Del resto ogni popolo ha la sua caratteristica tipica, che può essere positiva o negativa secondo il caso.
Noi Italiani siamo all'opposto. Siamo forse troppo approssimativi, ma sappiamo risolvere le cose con fantasia.
Alla "procedura" noi opponiamo la "creatività"…

Quel che ci manca è di essere Nazione Sovrana…

PS
Detto questo questo, ti assicuro che per me la discussione con il tedesco Erik, razzista e imbevuto di pregiudizi, può anche terminare qui.

[Valerio]

I speak for myself. Either one nation or goodbye.

Valerio, l'Europa non potrà mai essere una Nazione unica.

Loro sono "perfetti", nella gestione dei conti economici come delle pandemie, e registrano scrupolosamente la contabilità di quanto fatto, come stanno a dimostrare anche i registri molto scrupolosi dei trasporti ferroviari di ebrei verso Auschwitz.

Te ne sei ricordato, eh? L'ho scritto tanto tempo fa, quando combattevo contro i negazionisti! :)

Noi Italiani siamo all'opposto. Siamo forse troppo approssimativi, ma sappiamo risolvere le cose con fantasia.
Alla "procedura" noi opponiamo la "creatività"…

Quel che ci manca è di essere Nazione Sovrana…

PS
Detto questo questo, ti assicuro che per me la discussione con il tedesco Erik, razzista e imbevuto di pregiudizi, può anche terminare qui.

Io ho messo due opzioni. E da Sovranista puoi ben immaginare quale preferisco. Ma bisogna sempre lasciare una porta aperta.

[Vento]

“You are free from Germany. We dont dictate anything.”

Are you sure? What do you think of the crazy policy of open borders, supported with arrogance by Bruxell and Merkel, without ever having been able to democratically express European citizens on this issue? Even Germany and Holland support NGOs that with their ships bring illegal immigrants from Libya to Italian, non-German, ports. Do you remember the recent feats of your compatriot Carola Rackete against Italy, against his government and against Italian public opinion? What do you want the Italians of present Germany, led by Merkel, to think?

[ErikH]

I speak for myself. Either one nation or goodbye.

The strength of Europe is the diversity of its nations. There must always be a Germany, Italy, France, Greece or Spain. Thats what makes Europe so great. Each nation has its own culture and soul.

Thats what makes Europe strong.

What i find rather amusing is that you call me "racist". Why? Because i dont want send cash?

Its also funny Italians would bring up Auschwitz. Italy was facist. Killed jews and africans in the millions.

So whats the difference? We counted in Auschwitz?

Did Italians count in Libya?

Did Italians count in Ethiopia?

Italians bringing up Auschwitz and calling us racist is laughable.

Italy was Nazi as well. Mussolini killed millions in his wars. And Italians supported it with applause.


So bringing up that doesnt help Italy. As the austrian financial minister said today, Corona is no reason for shared debt.

[ErikH]

“You are free from Germany. We dont dictate anything.”

Are you sure? What do you think of the crazy policy of open borders, supported with arrogance by Bruxell and Merkel, without ever having been able to democratically express European citizens on this issue? Even Germany and Holland support NGOs that with their ships bring illegal immigrants from Libya to Italian, non-German, ports. Do you remember the recent feats of your compatriot Carola Rackete against Italy, against his government and against Italian public opinion? What do you want the Italians of present Germany, led by Merkel, to think?

The policy of open border ended in 2016.

Rackete and scum like her are hated in Germany as they are in Italy. Why did you not sink her boat? Greece and Spain show how it works. Savini was just hot air. I and many other Germans had great hopes in him but turned out he was a cuck.

Greece showed now how it works. Push the boats back, open fire and kick the journalists down. Salvini was to weak for that. Dont blame Germany for your own weakness. I expect Italy to act as Greece and Spain do. Agressive push back.

What are you afraid for? The toothless EU courts? Ignore them, just as evryone else.

[Vento]

“You are free from Germany. We dont dictate anything.”

Are you sure? What do you think of the crazy policy of open borders, supported with arrogance by Bruxell and Merkel, without ever having been able to democratically express European citizens on this issue? Even Germany and Holland support NGOs that with their ships bring illegal immigrants from Libya to Italian, non-German, ports. Do you remember the recent feats of your compatriot Carola Rackete against Italy, against his government and against Italian public opinion? What do you want the Italians of present Germany, led by Merkel, to think?

The policy of open border ended in 2016.

Rackete and scum like her are hated in Germany as they are in Italy. Why did you not sink her boat? Greece and Spain show how it works. Savini was just hot air. I and many other Germans had great hopes in him but turned out he was a cuck.

Greece showed now how it works. Push the boats back, open fire and kick the journalists down. Salvini was to weak for that. Dont blame Germany for your own weakness. I expect Italy to act as Greece and Spain do. Agressive push back.

What are you afraid for? The toothless EU courts? Ignore them, just as evryone else.

It is not true, the policy of open borders has never ended and was recently reiterated by von der Leyen: the external borders are closed for the Covid19, but they are always open to illegal immigrants. Crazy.

There is currently no democracy in the European Union and the most absurd policies are imposed, such as open borders, without any legitimacy. In a true democracy, different policies and different politicians must alternate in short time, but this does not happen, neither in Europe nor in Germany. Democracy is also blocked in Germany, where it is not possible to send away the political class of Merkel, which is now out of history, but remains there.

This is leading to the division of Europe and its end and the Germans are primarily responsible for it. Why didn't you dissociate yourself from the activities of your ships with illegal immigrants from Libya? Those who are silent, agree and Rackete had the support of Brussels and Berlin. And also the Italian Catholics and Communists, who act against the Italian nation, have enjoyed European support. For this Salvini could not do more. You have ruined your reputation and no one trusts you today.

[ErikH]

“You are free from Germany. We dont dictate anything.”

Are you sure? What do you think of the crazy policy of open borders, supported with arrogance by Bruxell and Merkel, without ever having been able to democratically express European citizens on this issue? Even Germany and Holland support NGOs that with their ships bring illegal immigrants from Libya to Italian, non-German, ports. Do you remember the recent feats of your compatriot Carola Rackete against Italy, against his government and against Italian public opinion? What do you want the Italians of present Germany, led by Merkel, to think?

The policy of open border ended in 2016.

Rackete and scum like her are hated in Germany as they are in Italy. Why did you not sink her boat? Greece and Spain show how it works. Savini was just hot air. I and many other Germans had great hopes in him but turned out he was a cuck.

Greece showed now how it works. Push the boats back, open fire and kick the journalists down. Salvini was to weak for that. Dont blame Germany for your own weakness. I expect Italy to act as Greece and Spain do. Agressive push back.

What are you afraid for? The toothless EU courts? Ignore them, just as evryone else.

It is not true, the policy of open borders has never ended and was recently reiterated by von der Leyen: the external borders are closed for the Covid19, but they are always open to illegal immigrants. Crazy.

There is currently no democracy in the European Union and the most absurd policies are imposed, such as open borders, without any legitimacy. In a true democracy, different policies and different politicians must alternate in short time, but this does not happen, neither in Europe nor in Germany. Democracy is also blocked in Germany, where it is not possible to send away the political class of Merkel, which is now out of history, but remains there.

This is leading to the division of Europe and its end and the Germans are primarily responsible for it. Why didn't you dissociate yourself from the activities of your ships with illegal immigrants from Libya? Those who are silent, agree and Rackete had the support of Brussels and Berlin. And also the Italian Catholics and Communists, who act against the Italian nation, have enjoyed European support. For this Salvini could not do more. You have ruined your reputation and no one trusts you today.

Im far right AfD.

Most what you said is wrong. Migration dropped by 97% since 2016. The EUHC allowed spain pushbacks, greece blocked borders and pushed back. I expect same from Italy.

What do you have a coast guard and navy for? Protect your border, push them back.