Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Spazio apposito per discussioni riguardanti il coronavirus.
Avatar utente
ErikH
Messaggi: 53
Iscritto il: 4 apr 2020, 10:50
Ti Piace: 1 time

Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

First im sorry for using english, but i speak no italian. My name is Erik and im from Weimar / Germany.

In last days alot of reports were published about anti german rants in Italian media and i find that very bad. Maybe i can show you the german side in all of this.

This virus hit all of Europe but the different nations cope different with it. In Germany we have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world. The virus has teh lowest mortality in the entire world in Germany. Its below 1%.

In Germany we understand very well, that Italy is hard hit. Same counts for Spain and some regions of France.

In the last days several italian patients were flown to Germany for treatment here. Something that is not easy to do, because people are naturally disturbed by the situation. Its hard to explain to the common people why infected people are flown in from a foreign country.

What we find here very bad is how Italians start to insult Germany, because we dont want "Corona bonds". That doesnt mean we dont want help Italy. What we dont want is that we make debt for Italy where we have no control over it. Something that is btw banned by the german constitution. Not a single cent of german tax money can be spend without consent of the german Bundestag (parliament). For same reason Eurobonds were banned from our highest court.

Beside that, Netherlands, Denmark and all eastern European countries are against it as well. Germany will never accept common debt.

In Germany pensioners go into retirement not before 67 years old and the pensions level is only 45%. Also according to the ECB, italians have almost 50% more private savings than Germans. How should the german government explain to a german pensioners who goes with 67 into retirement and gets a minimum pension...that it takes hundreds of billions debt to send to Italy where people retire years earlier and have higher savings?

Foreigners only see the German economic power but never see where it comes from. Yes we have low debt but gigantic surplus, gigantic gold reserves and can easily pay to german unemployed in the crisis enormous amounts of money. But only because we saved money in better times.

The german position is quite clear. We help. With medics, supplies and medical support. We will also help through EU institutions.

Insulting Germany and Germans wont help Italy. It will only change the view Germans have on Italy.

I hope i could show how people see it over here.

Avatar utente
Gasiot
Messaggi: 1019
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 22:01
Has thanked: 94 times
Ti Piace: 119 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Gasiot »

Non sapevo che la Germania non potesse spendere nulla all'estero dei suoi proventi fiscali
L'Italia manda soldi per aiuti vari in tanti paesi nonostante il grande debito pubblico
Mi puoi spiegare meglio come si concilia questa vostra regola con la cosiddetta Europa unita
“Se un uomo è uno stupido, non lo emancipi dalla sua stupidità col mandarlo all'università. Semplicemente lo trasformi in uno stupido addestrato, dieci volte più pericoloso.”
DESMOND BAGLEY

Avatar utente
Valerio
Messaggi: 2397
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 20:31
Località: Messina
Has thanked: 450 times
Ti Piace: 301 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Valerio »

You have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world.

We lost ours, according European recommendations, to remain in your stupid parameters. For that we can't love neither Europe or Germany.

Bye

https://m.facebook.com/vlorealbania/vid ... /?vh=e&d=n
Sovranità al Cittadino.
Non abbiamo un pianeta B

Avatar utente
ErikH
Messaggi: 53
Iscritto il: 4 apr 2020, 10:50
Ti Piace: 1 time

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

Gasiot ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 11:28
Non sapevo che la Germania non potesse spendere nulla all'estero dei suoi proventi fiscali
L'Italia manda soldi per aiuti vari in tanti paesi nonostante il grande debito pubblico
Mi puoi spiegare meglio come si concilia questa vostra regola con la cosiddetta Europa unita
Sure, i hope google translate is right and i understood your question.

We can send help as well and do so.

What we can not and will not...is to make debt for Italy. That corona or euro bonds are made, we pay the interest rate and the italian government decides over it. We dont want shared debt and our constitution bans it.

Italy and other southern europe countries have not saved money in good times, are known to have very weak fiscal discipline. The german tax payer would have no control over the money, when the italians make bonds in our name.

Avatar utente
ErikH
Messaggi: 53
Iscritto il: 4 apr 2020, 10:50
Ti Piace: 1 time

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

Valerio ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 12:43
You have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world.

We lost ours, according European recommendations, to remain in your stupid parameters. For that we can't love neither Europe or Germany.

Bye

https://m.facebook.com/vlorealbania/vid ... /?vh=e&d=n
I believe its an italian problem to always blame others for own mistakes. Not even Greece has such a weak healthcare system as Italy and no EU recommendation exist, that orders to cut down hospitals like Italy did.

A good example is the Laquila earthquake. It was a weak one but caused extreme destruction and over 300 death. Nowhere else in Europe would have such a weak earthquake cause so much destruction. Why did it cause such destruction? Because corruption undermined safety.

Same can be seen at the Corona crisis. Hospitals are worn down at extreme levels. Most funds were disappearing in dark channels and the result can be seen now. Extreme high mortality like in a 3rd world country and worse circumstances than in Iran.

Why not adress the obvious but blame EU / Germany for that?

Avatar utente
nerorosso
Messaggi: 1310
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 17:34
Has thanked: 120 times
Ti Piace: 163 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da nerorosso »

ErikH ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 15:05
Valerio ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 12:43
You have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world.

We lost ours, according European recommendations, to remain in your stupid parameters. For that we can't love neither Europe or Germany.

Bye

https://m.facebook.com/vlorealbania/vid ... /?vh=e&d=n
I believe its an italian problem to always blame others for own mistakes. Not even Greece has such a weak healthcare system as Italy and no EU recommendation exist, that orders to cut down hospitals like Italy did.

A good example is the Laquila earthquake. It was a weak one but caused extreme destruction and over 300 death. Nowhere else in Europe would have such a weak earthquake cause so much destruction. Why did it cause such destruction? Because corruption undermined safety.

Same can be seen at the Corona crisis. Hospitals are worn down at extreme levels. Most funds were disappearing in dark channels and the result can be seen now. Extreme high mortality like in a 3rd world country and worse circumstances than in Iran.

Why not adress the obvious but blame EU / Germany for that?
No caro Erik, la maggior parte dei fondi destinati alla Sanità in Italia non se ne è andata in oscuri meandri. La Sanità patisce adesso 20 anni di tagli in nome dei virtuosi bilanci tanto cari alla tua Germania, in nome del "ce lo chiede l'europa (volutamente minuscolo)" tanto caro al prof. Monti.
La sanità italiana era, pur con alcuni problemi tipici della pubblica amministrazione, effettivamente la migliore del mondo quanto all'universalità dell'assistenza, tanto è vero che la Cuba post-rivoluzione, dovendo creare ex novo un sistema sanitario universale, proprio a quello italiano si ispirò. Inoltre herr Erik, mi pare che i tassi di interesse non siano decisi dall'Italia, ma dai famigerati "mercati" o meglio dalla speculazione. Del resto trovo assolutamente assurdo che uno Stato debba chiedere soldi a prestito come una volgare Società per Azioni. Lo Stato deve essere in grado di coniare moneta quando serve ai suoi interessi, anche al prezzo di una certa inflazione, concetto di cui voi Tedeschi avete sommo terrore, memori della "Repubblica di Weimar" città nella quale tu vivi.
Inoltre ti preciso che anche in Italia si va in pensione a 67 anni, e più o meno alle stesse condizioni infami a cui la Germania costringe i suoi pensionati, quindi su questo non puoi avere nulla da dire.

La verità è che la UE è stata costruita secondo le esigenze della Germania, e l'Euro infatti segue proprio quelle che erano le linee guida del "Deutsch Mark". Infatti il mostruoso surplus commerciale attuale della Germania è proprio favorito dalla moneta comune.

In estrema sintesi per l'Italia (grazie sig. Prodi) l'Euro è stato una trappola mortale.

PS
Le intenzioni dello Germania, intesa come sistema oligarchico capitalistico, senza nessuna allusione al suo popolo, che come tutti i popoli ha pregi e difetti, e in subordine della Francia, sono quelle di ridurre l'Italia come la povera Grecia, che siete riusciti a immiserire e depredare.
PATRIA O MUERTE!!!

(Fidel Castro)

Avatar utente
Valerio
Messaggi: 2397
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 20:31
Località: Messina
Has thanked: 450 times
Ti Piace: 301 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Valerio »

ErikH ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 15:05
Valerio ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 12:43
You have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world.

We lost ours, according European recommendations, to remain in your stupid parameters. For that we can't love neither Europe or Germany.

Bye

https://m.facebook.com/vlorealbania/vid ... /?vh=e&d=n
I believe its an italian problem to always blame others for own mistakes. Not even Greece has such a weak healthcare system as Italy and no EU recommendation exist, that orders to cut down hospitals like Italy did.

A good example is the Laquila earthquake. It was a weak one but caused extreme destruction and over 300 death. Nowhere else in Europe would have such a weak earthquake cause so much destruction. Why did it cause such destruction? Because corruption undermined safety.

Same can be seen at the Corona crisis. Hospitals are worn down at extreme levels. Most funds were disappearing in dark channels and the result can be seen now. Extreme high mortality like in a 3rd world country and worse circumstances than in Iran.

Why not adress the obvious but blame EU / Germany for that?
You should read other newspapers than yours, so able to mistify all Italian affairs. Our only & great mistake was to trust this deceitful EU, based on the project of destroying the second European industrial power and acquire its enormous heritage.
Sovranità al Cittadino.
Non abbiamo un pianeta B

Avatar utente
nerorosso
Messaggi: 1310
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 17:34
Has thanked: 120 times
Ti Piace: 163 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da nerorosso »

ErikH ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 15:05
Valerio ha scritto:
4 apr 2020, 12:43
You have over 40.000 intensive care units and one of the strongest healthcare systems in the world.

We lost ours, according European recommendations, to remain in your stupid parameters. For that we can't love neither Europe or Germany.

Bye

https://m.facebook.com/vlorealbania/vid ... /?vh=e&d=n
I believe its an italian problem to always blame others for own mistakes. Not even Greece has such a weak healthcare system as Italy and no EU recommendation exist, that orders to cut down hospitals like Italy did.

A good example is the Laquila earthquake. It was a weak one but caused extreme destruction and over 300 death. Nowhere else in Europe would have such a weak earthquake cause so much destruction. Why did it cause such destruction? Because corruption undermined safety.

Same can be seen at the Corona crisis. Hospitals are worn down at extreme levels. Most funds were disappearing in dark channels and the result can be seen now. Extreme high mortality like in a 3rd world country and worse circumstances than in Iran.

Why not adress the obvious but blame EU / Germany for that?
A proposito Erik, dovresti leggere questo, che è pubblicato da "Il Manifesto" giornale italiano, ma è un appello pubblicato e firmato da numerosi intellettuali tedeschi, tra cui il filosofo Jurgen Habermas.

https://ilmanifesto.it/leuropa-vive-o-muore/

Qui si dimostra cosa è l'Europa.
Banda di usurai del nord o federazione di Nazioni Sorelle?
PATRIA O MUERTE!!!

(Fidel Castro)

Avatar utente
ErikH
Messaggi: 53
Iscritto il: 4 apr 2020, 10:50
Ti Piace: 1 time

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da ErikH »

We cant be sister nations when one nation follows strict austerity and let people work until 67 years old while the other spends money like there is no tomorrow. If Germany had a monetary politics like Italy, it would be bancrupt too. So what will Italy do then? Rise pensioner age to 67 as well and take 50% of the italians savings?

Germany will help Italy with medical help. We will send doctors and staff to help your healthcare system. We will send pharmaceutic supplies and breathing machines.

We will support italian economy through the ECB and the ESM fond, which was made for situations like that. What we wont do is to make common debt. Euro bonds or Corona bonds are against German interests, hurt the german tax payer and are banned by the german constitution. The highest german court ruled, that common european debt is banned by the german constitution and illegal by german law.

Another aspect that is important here is, that Italy tried to insult and belittle Germany to get that money.

Greece tried the same and failed. Beside that, there are nations in the EU much poorer than Italy who do much better and with less corruption. The baltics and poland for example. Explain a polish tax payer why he should pay money to Italy, while earning only 30% of an italian?

I think Italy and Italians should understand that this will lead to nothing. Germany will block any attempt for shared debt in the EU.

Try to see it from our side. If you are a german worker...would you want italian politicians decide about your hard earned money? Italians dont even trust their own goverment but now want Germans to trust them? Come on.

On a sidenote, German pharma giant Bayer found out that a certain medication they produce works against COVID-19. Germany secured large amounts of this for us...and also for Italy. Thats help.

And while italians insult as as Nazis because we dont want give them free money, we evacuate italians to save their life

Immagine

Avatar utente
Valerio
Messaggi: 2397
Iscritto il: 8 giu 2019, 20:31
Località: Messina
Has thanked: 450 times
Ti Piace: 301 times

Re: Greetings from Germany - some facts about current situation Germany / Italy

Messaggio da leggere da Valerio »

So you are true benefactors! And what's about founds to help German banks? Or about managing of surplus?

No violations? I suppose it's a case of two weights and two measures.


I am convinced that Europe is not and never will be an only nation. Then I think that the experiment failed.

So long, Europe! China aids are more relevant.
Sovranità al Cittadino.
Non abbiamo un pianeta B

Rispondi